Imported from years of club emails (sent round Graeme Oxley's Stag Forum email list). Names, dates and details may be incomplete or wrong. If you spot a mistake, please let us know and we'll fix it. Got old Stag emails, from before 2017 or on a subject that isn't here yet? Forward them to mail@triumphstag.info and we'll add them to the archive.
As usual, the contribution of this group is outstanding,
There are a number of “Racing” application multilayer head gasket companies who will make up gaskets to any spec and any thickness (by adding the layers to the required thickness) , “apparently” the quality is so good that it would take a lot of things to go wrong for these gaskets to fail (but who knows), in Jan I will speak to Richard at Fairfield motors about getting some batches made up, again “apparently” any old heads deemed to thin to use can be revived by using these multi layer gaskets. (I will advise as I know more).
On the Jackshaft and water pump, some think the trick is to use a water pump and jackshaft that have “worked together” in the past as a pair, I am currently sourcing 2 sets for 2 of the motors that do not have jackshafts or water pumps,
I will keep you all posted, but just wanted to share my 2c
Very interesting about the head gaskets; and the fact that Payen isn't making them anymore, well..........
The biggest problem we have here in Australia is the "take the head off/skim it" automatic regimen that most "shops" have.
This comes from the fact that Holden/Falcon heads are dime a dozen, and the old ones were in a low state of tune, so skimming wasn't a problem/done as a matter of course. Go too far? Get another head from the millions kicking around.
The fact that Stags (and my Dolomite) have practically NO room for skimming makes it a problem.
My Dolomite Sprint head, and the one that came off it, AND the one I went and looked at on Gumtree are all "up to the oval", ie skimmed past the small round area they are SUPPOSED to have.
EVERY ONE was beyond Triumphs "can't be used" dimension; and EVERY ONE had "first thing we do - give it a skim......" undersize, as previous owners just "put it in to be done." Given Stags have the heads off more than other cars = made worse.
I have never ever skimmed a head just on a removal/head gasket change unless it were damaged/had to be welded. Never was - so just clean with a scraper.
The problem I find is the shops that "we skim it, that's what we always do" or "hand scrape? We haven't got time to.........." Well; great. But if you get your car back and the compression is too high - don't blame the car.
Even the "new" heads I got are under spec (machined too far.) Even WITH thick head gaskets, the compression is higher than I would like, and that was built by a "Stag specialist" in England.
I am not happy with that engine. It runs fine, is reliable, gets me round over here in all weather (up to look at some parts the other day in 39 degrees - what else is a Stag for?? :-) ); but I prefer an engine I have built - so (if I ever get around to it) I have an engine that will be slowly rebuilt and I will eventually use that.
My plan it to use the old original dished pistons that everyone hates...... the 7.75 to one deep dishes that my car came with originally. Coupled with a standard head gasket and the overskimmed heads - THAT will bring it in at around 9 to one, and that will do me.
Or maybe I'll just get older and never get there...... :-) The cars goes alright as it is; so we'll see.
Water pumps. Arrrrggghhhhh!!!
Given the high miles I had used to do, I replaced a few water pumps, and was always the seals going after about 100,000 ks. I have had two failures (car trailered home) both suburban, thankfully, not on cross Aust trip.
In 1997, I decided to "give the car a birthday" and buy a NEW water pump. Cost me $195. Genuine Unipart, in fancy box. Lasted 1,000 k's = ate the jackshaft. Rattling like mad. Part of that "not hardened batch".
In 2002 I was driving in city traffic in Perth and a loud whirr, and then a bang and a seize. Centre lane, middle of freeway 8 lanes wide. (Only 8 lane part in Perth; but I managed to do it THERE!!!!)
Car on trailer - towed home. Shredded water pump gear.
Two years ago. New engine in. Take off from the lights, engine stumbles - seize/stops.
Water pump gear shredded, metal parts caught in front jackshaft bearing, galling/tearing on shaft surface, shaft seized.
I had had enough of this shit.
I spent 6 months trying to make a Hyundai Sonata based "normal" pump using a plate bolted on the front of the engine. I got it 99% finished; looked good to me, but the PS belt was too close to the WP pulley hub, and I wasn't happy with the belt contact (about 90 deg) with the crank pulley (although probably would have been fine.)
So I fitted an elec pump. The LAST thing I wanted was the elec pump - but I was so over the stupid mech pump, it was that or not drive the car.
You can't even see my elec pump, as it is where the alternator should be. I have a Bosch high output alt where the Aircon comp goes. Perfect. So it "doesn't fill the engine bay" in my case. If you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't know.
I run mine flat out. Engine runs, it runs. 7 amp constant draw. With the existing thermostat/bypass system, it doesn't know the difference.
DC rate the pump (EWP 80) at 2000 hours continuous. I have an hours counter on the car (back of parcel shelf, can't see unless you look for it.) So far with the hours I do (drive my car at least twice a week like an everyday car) that will be ten years. That will do me. It has easily enough capacity.
I don't trust the DC controllers "pulse/modulate enough" regimen. Each to their own. I had a cylinder on my Sprint break rings due to the engine being cold but limited circulation until thermostat opens (Mechanic had defeated bypass unbeknown to me.......). That wasn't an elec pump - but my engine gets full water flow; thermostat heat reg - like it should. No hot spots. AND the heater works as normal.
I didn't want an elec pump. But it meant drive the car - or NOT drive it, because I would always worry.
Each to their own.
The DC pump was GREAT as far as info/diags/tech etc. The fittings were the opposite, I tried theirs, too much hassle; I ended up using almost all my own/ ones i made. I can elaborate if anyone is interested.
I did 7 return trips across Aust in my Stag, and have driven it around for 26 years and 340,000 kms. But I had had enough of that stupid water pump. For me it just had to go..........
If I can't use something normally - I won't have it.
I hope these ramblings can help someone. :-)
Ross B.:
Saver shims can help if the heads have been over-skimmed.
Hope you’re all OK over east.
Ross (Perth)
Oh, and on the subject of head removal........ and the "once something gives me the shits, it's history" thing.......
I would NEVER use those ridiculous head studs on a Stag head. Had mine first year, tried to remove heads. A week of hypodermic needles and syringes with various penetrenes and WD40's. I have stripped about 5 Stag engines for parts, and half of them had the studs stuck, had to resort to welding, heat, hammers, hydraulic rams. Ridiculous.
So FIRST time I reassembled mine, used socket head bolts. Guy who sold them to me said they were grade 10 high tensile, and I would "never break them." I put never seize on them; have had heads on and off over 26 years, NEVER had a problem.
Ten bolts at $5 each - (then) - even if they are double that now; it is the BEST money you will ever spend on a Stag.
Never had a problem with socket head; versus "I wonder how long/how much hassle this will be???"................... why give yourself a hard time?
Have attached a pic of the "water pump? Where?" install. Apologies for the "prototype" bypass pipe." Was meant to "see how it worked" and I have a better looking one half made. But that one worked so well - it may be there forever.
A Stag owner:
The bolts you replaced the head studs with , are they thinner in profile than the original head studs ??
I am sorry mate, hard to see your reply amongst all the addressees below.
No, not that I remember, they are just standard bolts.
Cullums "kit" looks to be pretty much what I have got.
I may have taken a pic last time I had them out - I'll see what I can find......
Yeah, mine wasn't a "kit" - but looks similar to what I have been running for 26 years.....
There you go, I knew I had some pics somewhere.
DO use for info only.
DO talk to your "bolt guy" about tensile strength etc etc.
DO make up your own mind/measure/make your own calculations to confirm.
DON'T "just take my word for it."
But if the info helps anyone = so be it.
26 years and 340,000 kms and counting - my experience with them is good, but make up your own mind - and MAKE SURE you check hole depth in heads, in case crap in them makes the bolts bottom. (Sorry - suck eggs, but...)
Chris S.:
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Yes, here's the belt driven pump kit I recently installed on an engine, and saver shims also on this engine.
Hope to be firing it up soon and will see how well it all works.
Proprietor, Stagweber
Saver shims can help if the heads have been over-skimmed.
Hope you’re all OK over east.
Ross (Perth)
